Utah students go toe-to-toe with Iranian president

Diplomacy » Foundation seeks to promote trust between foes.

The Salt Lake Tribune
Updated: 09/30/2009 10:12:01 AM MDT
By Brian Maffly

Utah college students Brandon Barclay, Blair Van Dyke, Blanca Ramirez, Tyler Sutton and Camber Stoddard discuss politics with Iranian human rights activist Hadi Ghaemi Sept. 23 in New York City hours before meeting with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Pictured at far right is UVU professor Michael Minch, who directs the peace and justice studies program and co-led last week's excursion to the United Nations General Assembly. (Jan Saeed, Westminster College)

Without respectful disagreement and sensitivity to nuance, diplomacy won't achieve much. That's what a group of Utah college students learned during a rare meeting last week with members of Iran's government, including its hard-line firebrand president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

During the three-hour meeting at a New York City hotel, students plied Ahmadinejad with questions about his denial of the Holocaust, doubts about the legitimacy of his recent re-election, and the lack of freedom and representation accorded members of minority religious and political groups.

"You do have to throw curveballs in order to get some kind of underlying truth to your question," said Russell Holder, a Westminster College senior majoring in history. "We all learned how the game of diplomacy is really just a smoke-and-mirrors show. We saw how one or two questions that were outside the 'acceptable' areas of inquiry could get the longest, but most useless answers."

Holder was among 30 students and faculty from Westminster, Southern Utah University and Utah Valley University who traveled to New York City last week as part of an intercultural studies trip timed with a meeting of the United Nations' General Assembly.

Officials with the Foundation for Interreligious Diplomacy organized the meeting, giving students an unprecedented opportunity to meet a head of state at a time when his country's relations with the U.S. are at an historic crossroads.

"There is no substitute for being present during these kinds of diplomatic exchanges, and at times tense exchanges," said trip co-leader Brian Birch, a UVU professor of philosophy and associate dean of the College of Humanities and Social Sciences. "Our objective was to give them a variety of perspectives ... It will affect them for years to come and give shape to the way they approach intercultural and diplomatic issues."

Birch believes Ahmadinejad hopes to use his meetings with U.S. students and scholars to portray himself as an open-minded leader.

"The only mixed feelings I had were the extent to which this could be used for propaganda purposes back in Iran, but as academics, we are open to talk with anyone who will engage in productive dialogue," Birch said.

During the week, students also met with minority members of Iran's parliament, scholars, diplomats and dissident leaders, including Hadi Ghaemi, head of the International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran, who organized street protests during Ahmadinejad's Sept. 23 U.N. address.

"Our goal is to turn hateful enemies into trustworthy opponents," said foundation president Randall Paul, a retired businessman living in Utah County. "These are face-to-face discussions that allow clarity and not just sound-bite communication. We had three hours with the president of Iran. After we ran out of time, he had them ask their questions one by one. You might have disagreed with his answers, but it was an impressive performance."

Last Wednesday, Tyler Sutton, a Westminster sophomore studying philosophy, and the other students joined Iranian diplomatic officials for dinner at the Barclay Hotel -- immediately after Ahmadinejad addressed the General Assembly with a spirited defense of his re-election in the face of vote-rigging allegations.

Sutton and others queried the president about political dissidents filling Iranian prisons, to which Ahmadinejad replied: "We cannot judge the judgments of judges."

"He essentially claimed to be helpless and implied that he has no control or influence over the judicial process, asserting that if someone is in prison it's because they have broken the law," Sutton said.

Westminster business student Blanca Ramirez thought Ahmadinejad a charming and talented politician, but found herself being politely escorted away from the Iranian leader after she asked whether he would step down were such a move in his constituents' best interests.

"It was eye-opening in the way the world works," said Ramirez. "It made me feel lucky to live where women are seen as a equals."

Birch said most of the students' questions were "penetrating and probing," and they saw value in Ahmadinejad's long-winded, evasive answers, which gave nuanced views into his regime's perspectives.

"I was disappointed, yet relived, to see most of the facts that are reported in the media are generally true," said Sutton, who pressed Ahmadinejad on his notorious denunciations of the Holocaust as a phony pretext for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

"He said he doesn't deny the Holocaust as a historical fact, he just needs questions answered about that historical fact. For him it just doesn't all add up," Sutton said.

bmaffly@sltrib.com

The Utah-Iran connection

The Utah students who participated in last week's intercultural exchange trip to New York City, which included a meeting with the president of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, will discuss their experiences Oct. 22 at Westminster College, tentatively scheduled for 7 p.m. in the Gore Auditorium.

Here is an exchange between Westminster student Blanca Ramirez and Ahmadinejad during the Sept. 23 meeting:

Ramirez » Would you recognize a point that your position as president would hurt your people more than help them, and would you step down?

Ahmadinejad » Yes, yes of course, immediately.

Ramirez » Where would that point be?

Ahmadinejad » I will know [gesturing to his heart].

Translator » It will never happen. The people in Iran love him.

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